Joe Grundy

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Posts by Joe Grundy

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  108

  Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.

  however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.

  feel free to claim credit here.

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  Joe Grundy

  Thinking about this video more rationally - and accepting it as official WT policy - I have some more thoughts.

  Here in UK we have the charity 'The Samaritans' which runs anonymous phone helplines, and more. They do a superb job provid'Samaritans'ing someone to talk to when suicidal. They are trained and know what they are doing. My mother, my brother, and ex-wife #1 were 'Samaritans' and I have a huge respect for this charity. ('Charity' in its proper sense, not the WT sort). It is widely regarded.
  

  I would love to forward this video to the Samaritans and ask for their comments.

  I was also thinking about the ARC. Mr Stewart perceptively noted the 'captive concept' of this cult. Would forwarding a copy of this video enhance the understanding of the ARC about their cult procedures?

  And the current UK enquiry under HHJ Lowell Goddard. This video, = current teaching, may inform the enquiry.

  And, less rationally, that sleazeball slimeball elder in the video needs a smack or a kick in the nuts to wipe that greasy smile off his face. (That was not a rational comment, and I apologise for it.)
  
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  108

  Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.

  however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.

  feel free to claim credit here.

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  Joe Grundy

  OK, I'm showered, caffeined and nicotined.

  But no less affected by this video - and I am assuming here from previous comments that this is being held up as the correct response by the 'Chosen Ones'. Barf.

  Suicide

  I have some experience of this. Professionally and personally, and in this context I don't mind sharing.

  I was a police officer for 30 years. I have seen many suicides up close, by various methods, and had the experience of telling loved ones about it. My last posting, as a supervisor, involved being 'on-call' and my most poignant memory is of going out at 3 am to the suicide of a 15 year old girl. I cried with the parents. This is not recommended professional behaviour. I had a daughter the same age.

  My father in law hung himself - he was younger than I am now. I had the job of telling my then wife, our children, and organising the funeral.

  And personally - I've been there, more than once. PTSD and other stuff. I'm still here. I probably wouldn't be if the help I received was limited to the sh*tbags in this video.
  

  Next bit to follow
  
  
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  108

  Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.

  however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.

  feel free to claim credit here.

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  Joe Grundy

  Random thoughts.

  She says 'I can't go on'. 'I need help'. The f**kwits are not listening.
  

  Bro sleazeball is talking in that slow slightly-slurred voice as if he is a) slightly drunk, b) a mystic or c) a Medicine Man.
  
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  108

  Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.

  however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.

  feel free to claim credit here.

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  Joe Grundy

  Another coffee and another cigarette needed - but I'll just say this.

  I've been on this site for many years. I thought I'd seen the depths of the WT (especially after the ARC fiasco). But seeing this video has shown me that this cult is worse than I had thought, and that's taken some doing.

  It takes a lot to shock me, but this has done it. And it's out of the WT's own mouth.
  
• 
  108

  Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this video will be played at one of the clam meetings in march 2016.. the content is kind of old news because it is a recut version of a previous video produced for the elder's school.

  however, it's still significant because it shows that the organization still has dissenting brothers in positions of leadership.. my thanks to the leaker.

  feel free to claim credit here.

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  Joe Grundy

  I never was a JW.

  My first impression on watching that video was that it was a parody. Sadly, it's apparently not. A sleazy slimeball grinning smirking tw*t and his sidekick (would you buy a used car from these men?) go to visit a recently bereaved young widow, pull out the NWT and a magazine, talk about Job and being an 'integrity keeper'? WTF?

  (My evil mind saw this as the first chapter in a porno movie - followed by one or both of the f**kwits calling back for extra-mural 'shepherding' visits).

  This made me so angry that I'll stop there. I need a coffee and a cigarette before I comment further. But I'll be back.
  
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  161

  Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  court denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.

  a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.

  http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.

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  Joe Grundy

  Mephis:

  Sorry, just saw your post from yesterday. Thank you for that.
  
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  161

  Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  court denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.

  a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.

  http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.

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  Joe Grundy

  (Probably my last comment on this point).

  RC (and perhaps other institutions, I don't know) mandate that the confession between penitent and one priest are sealed. Fine. Confidential. Secret,
  

  JW rules are not. (Two elders, JC, notes made, reported to branch, etc.) Not confidential. Not secret.

  THAT'S the f**cking difference!
  
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  161

  Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  court denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.

  a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.

  http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.

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  Joe Grundy

  "I'm sure it's why Jackson (eventually) appeared on the Aussie RC last year"

  I have to say that having watched the ARC proceedings I was impressed by the way that HHJ McClellan and CA Stewart in a caring, empathetic, way ensured that Jackson gave evidence. It wasn't their fault that Jackson was such a doofus. He did that all on his own.
  
• 
  161

  Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  court denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.

  a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.

  http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.

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  Joe Grundy

  "Fisherman" said:
  

  But the conditions of "religious" confidentiality are not set by you or by what people expect or think it is the case. They are set forth by the US Constitution and you do not have to like it either. If US law protects JW version of priest/ penitent and you don't like it -too bad! JW version is entitled to same immunity provisions as Catholic versions under US law regardless of what you like or think. And US High Courts will vindicate it.

  Well, this is bollocks (a technical legal term), of course, and though I claim no knowledge whatsoever of the US constitution I do claim a thorough working knowledge (and practice) of the common law which applies here.
  

  The legal concept of confidentiality is relatively simple. If someone provides information to someone else on the basis that, and in the expectation that, the information will be held in confidence, there is a contract of confidentiality. That is, to state the obvious - no information will be divulged to anyone.
  

  Simply put, in light of the forgoing and what is common knowledge of the JW procedures, there is no confidentiality.
  
  
• 
  161

  Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  court denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.

  a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.

  http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.

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  Joe Grundy

  "Joe - interesting that from your perspective at the frontline, thank you. The legal background may interest you. It's a little obscure and case law dating back centuries... the ultimate endpoint in Britain is for a judge to rule that something is required for the public interest. Once that ruling is made, you can end up with Catholic priests in the dock expected to testify. (Although last properly tested back in late Victorian era!). CofE clergy are still in an odd place with the whole confession thing - legally obliged to remain silent (state church legacy) but also equally subject to a judge demanding testimony. Last I heard, they were trying to figure out how to fix that themselves.

  Judges don't tend to press that hard though (the discretion under PACE) which is why it's only when dim JWs try to muck up major child abuse investigations that the stick comes out. Like it did in Newcastle not so long back. And then after months of the judge trying to persuade them to testify of their own accord. They chose to testify on the morning of the trial, rather than spend some time at Her Majesty's pleasure."

  Well, yes and and no. Of course, judges can and should rule 'in the public interest'. I am not aware of any case in which a catholic priest (or a CofE priest) has ever been subpoenaed to give evidence of what occurred in a confession, and I would be interested to learn of the procedure which occassioned that. It would seem to me to be covered by PACE (excluded material).

  I note your comments that 'Judges don't tend to press that hard'. I'm not sure what you mean by 'the discretion under PACE'. I can tell you that the judges with which I dealt pressed hard, demanded evidenced and reasoned legal arguments, and issued orders/warrants that were never - never -overturned by higher courts.

  (This is a UK (E&W) perspective.) Judges don't try to 'persuade' people. They explain the options. You don't f@@k with the judge, ever.

  And here is a true story. I had a case (related to my post above about judges ordering bank information). The judge had ordered that material held by the bank (a national) must be produced to us (the police) in 7 days. It wasn't. The local, area, regional managers appeared before the judge to explain the failure. The judge ordered the CEO to appear - and advised that he bring a toothbrush. The material was provided.